RANK NO Choice

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Calvin
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RANK NO Choice

I though I had a working understanding of how this works. Today, after the vote, I think my vote won't countt.

I voted in the first column for Poliquin. I did NOT make any vote in the other columns. I reasoned that from what I heard, that the lowest candidate would be thrown out and the second choice "on those ballots only" would be tabulated into the previous mix.
My understanding was that on the second count, candidates "49%", 44%, and 4%' gets the count in column "a"; and then added to that result is column "b" that was on the ballots for candidate 3%..

Today I hear, that with no one getting 51%, ALL of column "a" is thrown out and they tabulate column "b". If this is correct then I didn't vote ! My first choice is thrown out. because I didn't make a choice for the other columns. I had reasoned that the lowest possible rank for Poliquin would be second place. I reasoned that my choice would be in the final vote between two candidates. Am I wrong ?
If it goes to rank choice, is my first column vote and only vote thrown out ?

My brother voted for Poliquin across the ballot in ALL choices ! SO MUCH FOR RANK CHOICE !

Melvin Udall
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His ballot may have been

His ballot may have been thrown out for not following directions.

expat
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No "may have" about it. The

No "may have" about it. The directions were clear about that. Perhaps there is an argument to be made about proving literacy before being allowed to vote. Sure would weed out a whole bunch of Trump supporters.

Mark T. Cenci
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Don’t mind expat (rhymes with

Don’t mind expat (rhymes with asshat). He is in the midst of a NLE (Near Life Experience)

Why force people to rank choices if there is one and only one for them?

expat
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No one is forced to rank

No one is forced to rank choice. It is not a requirement to choose a next favorite candidate. You just can't vote for the first choice candidate as your second or third choice. Clear as a bell on the instructions.

Mark T. Cenci
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Egads i agree with expat on

Egads i agree with expat on something. Calvin i think your understanding of column a being tossed is not correct. Column a is always counted.

johnw
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Ranked choice voting brought

Ranked choice voting brought to you by the same people who can’t explain what your “fair share “ of tax is.

expat
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Based on the absurd

Based on the absurd assumptions and assertions made on this thread about RCV, I'd say the problem isn't the explanation, it's the lack of comprehension of even the simplest of concepts.

Melvin Udall
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What assumptions and

What assumptions and assertions?

And we didn't even examine the point that the next highest vote count is for someone who doesn't live in the district. At least not that TNTSNBN knows.

Economike
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No problem, Mel.

No problem, Mel.

I hear that RCV is the "simplest of concepts."

Maybe expat can explain it succinctly and exactly. How about 75 words or less?

Toolsmith
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The classic mechanism of

The classic mechanism of ranked choice (the Hare system) would, if no candidate get 50%+1 votes, throw out the 1st choice in the ballots of the last place candidate - thus the 2nd choice in those ballots becomes the 1st choice, the 3rd choice becomes the 2nd choice, and so on. If this still does not result in 50%+1 votes for any candidate, the process is repeated. The case of a tie is special - the candidate with the most *original* 1st choice votes prevails.

Now, I don't know if Maine diddled with the classic process...

Contains a link to the Naval War College briefing that has a pictorial presentation outlining the Hare system's workings...
http://www.mainelng.com/comment/762777#comment-762777

Melvin Udall
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There's still the issue of

There's still the issue of ballots being discounted for not following the rank voting as stated.

Or for making too big an oval, or using too dark a pen, or leaving the stink of bad breath on one.

Toolsmith
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None of the information on

None of the information on 2nd, 3rd, 4th choices was reported. Were they counted on election day? If not, WHERE have the ballots been kept? Chain of custody is critical here - there's a totally new way to cheat. Fill in the blank 2nd, 3rd, 4th choices on ballots that had not been marked by the voter - undetectable if those entries were not counted on election day.

As you can see from the presentation I linked to on classic ranked choice, the method does NOT involve waiting to count the alternate choices - all entries are counted at the same time, and then processed. Waiting to count them is absurd.

Al Amoling
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No No it's not absurd. How in

No No it's not absurd. How in God's name are we supposed to get progressives into office if we count them on election day????

JackStrawFromWichita
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“There's still the issue of

There's still the issue of ballots being discounted for not following the rank voting as stated

Where did you come up with that?

If you only picked one candidate for 1st then when he/she gets kicked out your ballet is done and that’s your choice.

If you vote for the same candidate for 1st, 2nd, 3rd… then again when your 1st gets kicked out there’s no one to move up to 1st.

One issue might be if you didn’t vote anyone for 1st and started out at 2nd or 3rd but if you’re that numb you deserve having your ballet tossed.

It’s conceivable that if enough of the 1st choices for the 4th or 3rd finishers didn’t rank the rest then Poliquin could win as he is slightly ahead now.

Economike
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"If you vote for the same

"If you vote for the same candidate for 1st, 2nd, 3rd....."

Wait a minute. If you choose one candidate as first and second (or more) choice, doesn't that disqualify your vote entirely, including first choice? If memory serves, the voting instructions were clear on that point.

I've been informed RCV is the simplest of concepts, so perhaps I'm mistaken.

Melvin Udall
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The only simpler system is

The only simpler system is where your ballot says "please hand your unmarked ballot to the nearest official, where it will be set aside for later use as appropriate."

It's called the Florida system.

Melvin Udall
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I just heard a report that

I just heard a report that Brenda Snipe in Broward County FL just found a box of 1,574 ballots for Maine's CD 2 and is shipping them up by private plane.

JackStrawFromWichita
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Economike:

Economike: https://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/upcoming/pdf/250c535-2018-230-complet...

See item 4, page 3-”Duplicate ranking for the same candidate”

Melvin Udall
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It just occurred to me that

It just occurred to me that for longer than I've been alive, Flo-rida has been drawing tourists based on attractions such as "The Fountain of Youth."

Knowing leaders should start promoting "The Fountain of Ballots." Custom orders welcome, ballots printed, votes marked, and overnight delivery guaranteed.

Now THAT is democracy for the new age!

Economike
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Thank you, Jack Straw.

Thank you, Jack Straw.

So, if I understand your official link, one can vote for two or more candidates. But if your second choice is the same as your first, your entire vote is tossed. No choice for you!

Gosh. This is the simplest of concepts!

Toolsmith
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Items 6 & 7 on page 4 are odd

Items 6 & 7 on page 4 are odd... Tiebreak by lots? Batch elimination?

So many opportunities for cheating. Two person teams, casting lots. Binding on any recount. All you need is 2 who agree and you can rig the result.

They didn't follow the classic Hare system's procedures...

JackStrawFromWichita
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Economike, your first choice

Economike, your first choice would be good until it's time to toss them and then they would be done because the 2nd choice is the same as the 1st.

In this case if one ranked Poliquin or Golden 1st then they're in it to the end as they will be the last 2 standing.

Watcher
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Here is a group of videos on

Here is a group of videos on RCV. What a mess this system is.

RCV is Rank

Economike
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Thanks, JackStraw.

Thanks, JackStraw.

I'm still confused about this. I understand that I can choose to have only one choice, which would be my choice in the first box. So, let's say, I choose only Golden. One vote, one box.

Now, let's say, I mark four boxes for Golden because he's my first, second, third, and fourth choice. I imagine I'm expressing myself emphatically. My ballot gets tossed, right?

Melvin Udall
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Watch this, and watch Florida

Watch this, and watch Florida and Georgia. And remember Minnesota and Franken.

Any variation on the most basic vote for A or vote for B is a calculated complication that allows the masters of election theft to find new avenues of corruption, manipulation, and lawyerly theft of outcomes.

The more variables you put into the mix, the more cracks in the wall.

Ugenetoo
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"You know, comrades, that I

"You know, comrades, that I think in regard to this: I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this — who will count the votes, and how."

Joseph Stalin

expat
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My ballot gets tossed, right?

My ballot gets tossed, right? . I would certainly hope so. To dumb to read instructions = too dumb to vote. You all were whining in another thread about the need to prevent idiots from voting. Well, here you have it.

Economike
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expat -

expat -

I take it you're confirming that my hypothetical voter (who chose his candidate twice or more) gets his ballot tossed.

Thank you.

By the way, you seem to have confounded me with someone who wants to keep idiots from voting. Rest assured, your secret is safe with me.

JackStrawFromWichita
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“Now, let's say, I mark four

Now, let's say, I mark four boxes for Golden because he's my first, second, third, and fourth choice. I imagine I'm expressing myself emphatically. My ballot gets tossed, right?

I’m not interpreting it that way and, intuitively, why should it?

The way it works is that if no candidate has more than 50% then the candidate with the fewest 1st place ranks gets eliminated and his/her 2nd place ranked becomes 1st, 3rd become 2nd, etc. until someone has more than 50% 1st place votes.

So, if you rank a candidate for all choices (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.) I would think that their 1st stays 1st until it’s their turn to get eliminated at which case their 2nd becomes 1st but they’re already eliminated so that is the end.

As an aside here, both Poliquin and Golden will retain all of their initial 1st place ranks because they will be the last two standing.

Bruce Libby
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RCV is just another gimmick

RCV is just another gimmick to go along with everything else such as Early voting, Same day registration, Absentee voting (with limited validity IMO) , essentially to keep irresponsible citizens on their asses as much possible.
I had little doubt Golden will prevail, Actually I want see him in office. In his ads he claimed to save medical care for 70000 Maine citizens while Poliquin killed 89000 with hi denial. I want Golden boy to talk out of the side of his mouth and explain why he didn't save the other 19,000 ?

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