Watch the video:
He's reaching for a gun.
The Oregon occupy people visited a vacant federal office at an unnecessary bird sanctuary. They did no damage to the facility and were not there to damage anything.
"Visited"? They were camped out there heavily armed, and according to reports had explosives. If they weren't there to damage anything, why were they using a backhoe? Some people here were accusing the "government" of lying about what happened, i.e. the vehicle didn't flee, he had his hands up, hundreds of bullets were fired, he was unarmed, etc." Given the video, it's becoming clearer who's lying and who isn't. These deluded individuals expected hundreds, if not thousands, of armed individuals to flock to Oregon to take on the feds. They got a dose of reality instead.
A classic case of behavior resulting in actions which takes away from issue .
The tactics failed . The narrative didn't seem to do much either.
there is the question of whether they shot him with his hands up and then he reached into his pocket, but that won't be answered in that video.
I'm curious to know what happened at the initial stop, the agents never approached the pickup, the agents just got out with guns drawn aimed at the truck and the truck sat there for several minutes before it sped away for I'd guess a 1/2 or mile before coming to the roadblock which had obviously been prepared well in advance.
The interview with the 18 year old girl, she said they were shot at before they went on their way to the road block. I suspect that the pickup was shot at while it initially was stopped and that prompted the driver to speed away.
I am on several sites who say the people in the truck said he was shot with his hands up and he reached down to cover the wound. They also claim he never carried a 9mm in his left pocket, he carried a .45 openly on his right hip since he was right handed.
The point here is, with the cover the police had, there was NO reason to shoot the man. If he HAD actually drawn a gun, then could have dealt with it from a safe location and put him down at that time.
Ruby Ridge and Waco all over again. But then again some of us expected nothing less, the government LOVES to make examples out of people.
Do you have a link to the raw aerial footage? I looked at it this morning but can't find it again there has been so many edited versions and shortened ones that it is lost in the ozone.
The original footage was taken before the white truck was stopped by the two suburbans.
David that is a dose of reality, most americans are watching dancing with the stars and the kardashians. Why would anyone be concerned about federal land issues
See Maineguides post above.
People are more concerned with armed men threatening and destroying property , violating the law.
Yes ,they should be concerned about the issue ,of course there hasn't been much offered by the protestors
to get people to look at the issue.
Here MIke, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ
Hard to say if he was reaching for a wound or a gun without audio, why use two hands to reach for a gun?
Mike the white truck was not stopped by others. The hero drove off road to attempt to avoid them.
I guess I can understannd how these guys could afford to be there , they could afford too drive the most expensive SUV !
At his age, it is possible to have an angina attack and be reaching for some nitro pills. If that were to be the case I'm willing to bet that that evidence would be destroyed as quickly as possible. Guaranteed that we would never know.
Rebecca pointed out:
"Isn't it wonderful how well the compliant media can report first hand info without ever being on the scene."
Or that they (or anyone) would concur with the LEO's version of events on the strength of that video?
Is that any different than statements from those not on scene and relying on second hand information?
Well at least they are using their own words not second stuff.http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/29/prosecutors-use-refuge-occupiers-ow...
David Allen imagines.:
"They appeared to be itching for a confrontation."
I watched the entire video. The driver rounded a curve and found the road completely blocked by three vehicles. His only chance to avoid hitting them was to leave the road. He did that. It was an ambush. The snow depth was up over the level of the doors on the pickup. The driver got out, irritated that he had been forced off the road. His arms were waving so he could keep his balance in the deep snow. He had no visible weapon on him and the authorities shot him 5 to 7 times. (Reports vary).
Finicum was headed to a.goverment approved public meeting in a neighboring county. The occupiers were told they were free to go. The occupiers were not the ones "itching for a confrontation" at the ambush site. The authorities later stated that Finicum had a pistol in his pocket. That does not justify killing the man who posed no threat that day.
On April 19, 1775 on Lexington Green, Capt. John Parker and his 37 men stood and faced around 800 Regulars. John Parker said. "Do not fire unless fired upon. But if they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Two men from nearby Woburn ran onto the green on their way to join their militia in Woburn. John Parker said, "Will you stand with us?"
The Woburn men looked at the 800 bayonets shining in the sun and said, "We will." It wasn't their town. One Woburn man was killed on Lexington Green. The other made it to Woburn and gave the report.
Tyranny was defeated that day. The shirt hanging beside my bed says,
It took eight long years before Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown. Liberty is worth saving.
We lost over 800,000 men in the Civil War. Our nation was worth saving. There is no other country with the Liberty we have. Liberty is worth saving.
Our nation is still worth saving. Liberty is worth saving.
First he fled the first stop
Did not obey orders to submit arrest.( others did)
He choose to attempt to avoid road block.
The other factors of his past statements /behavior are well documented ( his own words).
The difference between this and Concord Green, the leaders there did not attempt to flee.
But keep it going , he was at least in one context a better man than the rest of them.
Yes , Liberty is worth saving, it is the means to do that , that is different today.
Then there wasn't any recourse , today there is .
This is the original FBI full video which shows the initial stop of the white PU.
supplied by WC on TMC
He choose to attempt to avoid road block.
I think if you look at the video the brake lights were on quite aways before and during he put the truck in the snow bank. If I'm going to try and run around a roadblock I give it the gas.
He was speeding though and I don't know if we used his blinkers.
Roger, they were itching for a confrontation from the moment they occupied a federal building while heavily armed. Your comparison of these bozos to our revolutionary war and civil war heroes is both ludicrous and insulting to patriots.
Finicum was headed to a.goverment approved public meeting in a neighboring county. The occupiers were told they were free to go. The occupiers were not the ones "itching for a confrontation" at the ambush site.
If that is true it was an ambush
True or not, it still was an ambush.
He was fleeing arrest ,period,just as he said he was going to.
No-one was itching for it,Finicum, determined the events' outcome .
As long as the point is blame someone else it diminishes the new martyrs' importance to the narrative.
Note others than the message from jail via lawyer, very little word is said about A . Buddy ,the courageous leader ,who surrendered.
I believe Bundy set it up ,that is as plausible if not more so, than (99% of other stuff talked about. Why I bet he was a paid government actor.
Roger said the authorities allowed him to leave to meet with the sheriff. How was he fleeing arrest?
Is there any confirmation Finnicum and Co. were on a pass?
That looked to me like Finnicum's last ditch effort to get around the roadblock which can reasonably be construed as deadly force. Alternatively, I have driven that road countless times, often at night and a few times in snow. It may have taken a few seconds for Finnicum to comprehend what was facing him and he may have been forced to respond the way he did but that doesn't negate the fact he was fleeing. His behavior outside the truck, all things considered, seems to have invited a shooting.
As for the alleged pass, the presence of the helicopter would suggest LEOs didn't intend to honor it. Beyond the video, the cops would have placed a roadblock behind as they did the roadblock Finnicum met ahead, which was not the roadblock holding back traffic. That suggests two more roadblocks for traffic. US 395 is a major N/S alternative to I-5 and there would have been a lot of traffic to hold. This was a pretty big operation and safe passage for the Finnicum party was not a part of the plan.
The first stop where Bundy and other heroes were taken into custody is where he fled from.
Could be Roger is wrong !
Why were finicum's white PU and the jeep with the occupiers inside on the I-395 road?
Did the authorities let them go from the occupation and then set up this stop and roadblock?
Since they were breaking laws they probably did, it was good tactics Mike !
Think of it as better tactics than taking over a building and then calling for supplies because of poor planning!
Here again it would be desirable I guess to some ,to roll the tanks ,didn't you mention that.
this link states that a segment of FBI long version that I and others linked to has been removed which would show Payne exiting finicum's truck and being handcuffed. That occurred prior to finicum leaving initial stop. So the raw footage is not raw it was edited I'd assume by FBI
The names and home addresses of the team that shot Finicum will become known. Much has been learned since Lon Horiuchi.
Link to interview with 18 year old Sharp girl, she was in funnicum PU at initial stop, tells of arrest of Payne, in their PU, not viewed in FBI released "raw" video, and then the subsequent killing of finnicum and aftermath. at full roadblock.
She was released by FBI with no charges but gave this interview to "friend".
Why did FBI remove Payne arrest from "raw" video? To increase speculation, to hide their motives and intents?
Why would they not include that segment? To get the blogoshere creating untrue rumors of what had occurred then.
Let us not forget that creating controversy is one way to label those that question government crimes as a way to label us as conspiracy nuts. Government is not stupid, they know how to turn things and the great unwashed against "rebels" "insurgents" "terrorists".
Just getting the supposed raw footage was a search considering all the crap out there on Youtube, then discovering that it wasn't raw but left out how many minutes.
Let's see what else gets released and make a good value judgment as with anything released with those the power, those that constantly set the narrative. right Bruce : )
Just because it is not on YouTube at the same address does not mean it is gone. It will pop up again and again, like playing Wackamole. It is on a digital video disk (DVD) with multiple copies. There are many computers that do not contain modems. The information thereon is transferred from place to place on thumb drives or DVDs.
Mike here is my narrative.
They were a bunch of protestors who committed crimes. They threatened civilians and proved nothing.
They are heroes,well the one true martyr was , for the cause that will not succeed using these tactics.
They become vehicles for those others who have all sorts of grievances about the government and want to vent.
It takes away from issue and any chance of resolution.
The most important thing amongst the hundreds of experts who know the truth,discovered in the cellar bunkers,is to remember to zip up before taking trash out for the misses !