Idiotic "militia" standoff in Oregon

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Bruce Libby
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No no , I expect every

No no , I expect every believer to offer their private property up for theft
to show allegiance to the cause.
Even better drive it to Oregon for use.

Murphy
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Representative Greg Walden

Representative Greg Walden (2nd District of Oregon) provides context to the Hammond's situation in Oregon
Video and Transcript: https://walden.house.gov/speech

I wish my Representative acted like Mr. Walden.

Bruce Libby
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Has he introduced any

Has he introduced any legislation to address issues?

Spider
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State your position, clearly.

State your position, clearly.

https://www.oathkeepers.org/critical-warning-to-u-s-military-and-federal...

This is addressed first and foremost to the entire U.S. military, but especially to the military Special Operations Command and community. Secondly, it is addressed to federal LEOs, and especially to their SRTs, such as the FBI HRT (many of whom are former military special operations). This comes from combat arms and special operations veterans, along with veteran Sheriffs and police officers, within the Oath Keepers organization:

Critical Warning:

The Ammon Bundy led occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon must be handled as a normal, non-crisis, law enforcement matter, and preferably by Oregon Sheriffs (who are organized as the Oregon State Sheriffs’ Association), and their deputies, together with the local community there in Harney County, OR. The locals can resolve this, if given enough time. The Oregon Sheriffs can resolve this, if given enough time.

This situation must not be handled in a military or paramilitary fashion, using military assets, military rules of engagement, or otherwise attempting to end it suddenly by use of dynamic assault, resulting in catastrophic loss of life, as has occurred twice in recent American history, with horrific results (at Ruby Ridge in 1992, and at Waco Texas in 1993). If you do it “Waco” style here, you risk pushing this nation over the edge into a civil war, because there are “no more free Wacos.”

This is not an emergency situation, unless you turn it into one. Ammon Bundy’s occupation of an empty building is essentially the same as civil-disobedience sit-ins that the political left has engaged in for decades, from anti-war and civil rights protesters in the 60s and 70s (including a nineteen month occupation of Alcatraz by American Indian activists), to Occupy Wall Street Movement and Black Lives Matter activists today.

These ranchers, cowboys, and veterans just happen to be armed, as westerners tend to be. Get over it. There are no hostages, there are no close-by neighbors at risk, there is nobody there except those who want to be.

So tread lightly, and at most handle this like the Montana Freeman standoff, where the FBI was patient and waited them out, with a peaceful surrender coming after eighty one days. In this situation, the locals will likely have this resolved long before that length of time. Regardless, there is no rush.

Despite that reality of there being no emergency here, we have very good reason to believe that ideologue leftist bureaucrats within the Obama Administration – such as within the D.O.J., and their politically minded “perfumed prince” puppets within the D.O.D. – are pressuring you to prepare to use military assets and military rules of engagement to conduct a dynamic raid. We are an organization of current serving and retired military, police, fire-fighters and other first responders, and we have contacts at every major military installation in America (including Joint Base Lewis-McChord), and at the Pentagon. We hear things. We’ll just leave it at that.

And we know that the Obama Administration considered the use of military force during the Bundy Ranch standoff in April, 2014, pursuant to Directive No. 3025.18, “Defense Support of Civil Authorities.” Fortunately for all Americans, they decided not to do it. This fact was confirmed by a May 28, 2014 Washington Times article:

A U.S. official said the Obama administration considered but rejected deploying military force under the directive during the recent standoff with Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy and his armed supporters.

From Inside the Ring: Memo Outlines Obama’s Plan to Use the Military Against Citizens.

So, the military force hammer was, in fact, on the table during Bundy Ranch, as we suspected. Please don’t try to tell us it’s not on the table again, now. We know it is. The only question is whether the Obama Admin leftist weenies will be foolish enough to try to actually use it, and if they do, whether you will be foolish enough to obey their idiotic orders and obediently act as that hammer.

In addition, it is clear you federal LEOs have not handled this in the normal law enforcement manner of cordoning off the area and immediately initiating negotiations. Why is that? Why has there yet to be even an attempt to open direct lines of communications between you and Ammon Bundy, as members of Pacific Patriot Network, Idaho III%, and Oath Keepers on the ground in Burns, OR have been repeatedly urging you to do for the past week, to no avail?

Don’t do it. Do not follow unlawful orders if the Obama Administration fools decide to go “full retard.” No matter how eager the politicians like Harry Reid are for Ammon Bundy’s head, after the black eye Ammon and his family gave them at Bundy Ranch in 2014, and no matter how much they pressure you to “make an example” out of these guys, you cannot drop the hammer on a bunch of ranchers, cowboys, and veterans sitting in an empty building without it blowing up in all of our faces. Treat this with kid gloves, like the Montana Freeman standoff, instead of like the Waco standoff, or risk setting off a civil war.

The stuffed-shirt, pencil necked metrosexuals inside the D.C. beltway will not be the ones bleeding and dying in the chaos that could follow (at least not at first).

Bruce Libby
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I missed the part in this

I missed the part in this rant describing what could be done to resolve
the situation short term and beyond.
I read threats ,orders from those w/ no authority and of course the ever reference to past events.

Who lit the fires at Waco , Oath keepers answer that ?

Murphy
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Bruce,

Bruce,
If you had listened to Representative Walden's speech or skimmed through the transcript you would learn that Walden has been personally involved in many efforts to hold the BLM accountable. One of his main gripes is that BLM agents keep reinterpreting some of the laws he helped create then they have the gall to tell Walden that he is the one that does not understand the intent of agreements he crafted.

Bruce Libby
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Murphy

Murphy
That was a yes or no question.
One or the other would have sufficed.

Good I am glad someone has tried at least.

Spider
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The oathkeepers connect the

The oathkeepers connect the possible federal response in Oregon to the actual federal response in Waco. Apparently they do not want to repeat 'Waco'. So what actually happened at Waco....its not really clear....sorta like...... what actually happened to JFK in Dealey Plaza in Texas?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-really-happened-at-waco/

"Independent filmmaker Michael McNulty came upon some evidence that appeared damaging to the government. He found a shell casing from a certain type of tear gas round that could start a fire - a device the Justice Department had denied using for more than six years - publicly and to Congress.

"Congress was mislead on this; there is no question about it," says Assistant U.S. Attorney Bill Johnston, the top justice department official in Waco. He worries that someone in the Justice Department hid the truth.

For several weeks Johnston wrote to his superiors warning them that the new evidence contradicted what they had been saying. But the Justice Department did not change its story until August, when Attorney General Janet Reno was forced to admit that the tear gas round had been used.

Investigators have concluded that two of these devices were used. Though credible experts still overwhelmingly believe the Davidians started the fire, the damage had been done. The FBI was caught in a lie."

Bruce Libby
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Appearances can be deceiving

Appearances can be deceiving !

Rebecca
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This is a verbal report from

This is a verbal report from an objective reporter, At least in my opinion. He neither supports nor opposes what is happening and is relating as objectively as possible based on his personal observations.

This podcast is certainly worth a listen:
https://readfomag.com/2016/01/fo-podcast-episode-031-what-i-learned-at-t...

Bruce Libby
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This report from an objective
David Allen
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Rebecca, "objective"????

Rebecca, "objective"???? Give me a break. The guy's site is sponsored by a body armor company! The people in area want these guys gone. Get the hell off my land.

Rebecca
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So What, David? It's also

So What, David? It's also sponsored by a communications company, a computer software security company, and a few advertisements for some guy selling books. Try telling the whole story when it is staring you in the face. You'll be better respected.

Bruce Libby
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Another view :http://www
Bruce Libby
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The latest:http://www

The latest:
http://www.pressherald.com/2016/01/21/oregon-refuge-occupier-begins-to-s...

I hope Justice Ginsberg (sp) has a retirement plan because it seems A. Bundy has taken on
the duties of the SCOTUS.

"we are not a threat " .
Let us look at that a moment.
The we, a group of armed men from outside the community take over federal property,remove fence property ,use vehicles
the list goes on ,but none of that constitutes a threat.

Mike G
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Really? supreme Court Justice

Really? supreme Court Justice? a threat?

Wow, maybe Obama will decide whether he is really good at killing people

Bruce Libby
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Well Mike he seems to know

Well Mike he seems to know alot about telling people where they the they can be etc.etc.
Maybe that is what they want. Something new to talk about for years.

Bruce Libby
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This article from MST today

This article from MST today shows the idiocy of the action.
You are suppose to join the cause because there is a folded flag,and uniform on table.Byte way that folded flag is usually seen when ?
Given the the family of a fallen warrior ! Those who fell doing their duty defending this country.
I like the theatrical move of the Bundy with his arm directing to the other person.

BlueJay
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This recent blog post with

This recent blog post with related NYT article adds a new twist to this whole issue:
"Finally the back story behind the Malheur Wildlife Refuge– and the Hammond ranch, as well as other ranchs and surrounding the refuge surfaces. Rumors have now been confirmed the ranch lands do indeed contain a wealth of precious metals, minerals, and uranium that is coveted by not only the federal government, but foreign entities as well. Think TTIP….heck just think TPA. Or double heck just think NAFTA!"

https://themarshallreport.wordpress.com/2016/01/24/clinton-foundation-po...

In April of 2015, the New York Times reported how the plan worked. Here are some of the excerpts to the story.

“Several leaders of the Canadian mining industry, who have been major donors to the charitable endeavors of former President Bill Clinton and his family. Members of that group built, financed and eventually sold off to the Russians a company that would become known as Uranium One.

Beyond mines in Kazakhstan that are among the most lucrative in the world, the sale gave the Russians control of one-fifth of all uranium production capacity in the United States. Since uranium is considered a strategic asset, with implications for national security, the deal had to be approved by a committee composed of representatives from a number of United States government agencies. Among the agencies that eventually signed off was the State Department, then headed by Mr. Clinton’s wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton.

As the Russians gradually assumed control of Uranium One in three separate transactions from 2009 to 2013, Canadian records show, a flow of cash made its way to the Clinton Foundation. Uranium One’s chairman used his family foundation to make four donations totaling $2.35 million. Those contributions were not publicly disclosed by the Clintons, despite an agreement Mrs. Clinton had struck with the Obama White House to publicly identify all donors. Other people with ties to the company made donations as well.

Shortly after the Russians announced their intention to acquire a majority stake in Uranium One, Mr. Clinton received $500,000 for a Moscow speech from a Russian investment bank with links to the Kremlin that was promoting Uranium One stock.

At the time, both Rosatom and the United States government made promises intended to ease concerns about ceding control of the company’s assets to the Russians. Those promises have been repeatedly broken, records show.”

Read full New York Times story here: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-a...

Not only are these ranchers being sold out, but all of the American people with them.

:

Mike G
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The Russians and the Clintons

The Russians and the Clintons together, how cozy.

I really have to consider it fact that the whole geopolitical game is just a con to keep the great unwashed thinking that there are good guys and bad guys, so we continue to fear the other side and work for peanuts for our good masters.

You have to wonder what they discuss at their G20 meetings and the Davos meeting etc. They must really laugh their asses off at us dumb smucks who eat their BS.

Roger Ek
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BlueJay reminds us:

BlueJay reminds us:
"Not only are these ranchers being sold out, but all of the American people with them."

It may be that millions among those 95,000,000 American adults not working have simply decided not to feed this beast and are hunkered down for what is to come.

Ugenetoo
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More of the back story of the
Roger Ek
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The FBI began shooting people

The FBI began shooting people around sunset today, Oregon time. One dead and others wounded so far.

Maine Guide
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It is not yet known who fired
Bruce Libby
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Roger

Roger
Don't bother to get any facts . From reports I saw it was the Oregon SP that shot.
Now you have the narrative refreshed.
http://news.yahoo.com/arrests-oregon-standoff-leaders-leaves-084844536.html

David Allen
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Hyperbole much?

Hyperbole much, Roger?

ccoose
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"......around sunset today.

"......around sunset today.
It's poetic with just that touch of cowboy.

Roger Ek
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Bruce Libby requests facts.

Bruce Libby requests facts. Five hours before he was killed, Rancher Finicum posted a video of his family singing "Amazing Grace". Before long there will be patriots who have had enough of Ruby Ridges, Wacos and Burns killings. None of these victims ever killed anybody or wanted to kill anybody.

http://heavy.com/news/2016/01/lavoy-finicum-dead-dies-rip-funeral-youtub...

Bruce Libby
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Roger how come the new

Roger how come the new Jeffersons' family members are in custody vs. not being in custody.

Fact Finicum made a choice, the Bundys' didn't choose the same. Speaks volumes !!
Here is a quote from him:
"This is where I'm going to breathe my last breath, whether I'm 90, 95 or 55," Finicum told The Associated Press on Jan. 5. " ... I'm going to not spend my days in a cell."
That was one fatal choice not plural in Burns.

Roger Ek
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As Buffalo Springfield sang,

As Buffalo Springfield sang, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose." We have 95,000,000 Adult Americans between 18 and 65 not working. I bet that more than half would like to have jobs. When we are talking millions of people there are many many millions who have lost everything they worked for and have no dreams. Those "bitter clingers" have been pushed to their limits .

The "establishment" is absolutely clueless about what is coming for them. In some ways it will be fun to watch. A friend of mine received a note, written with a fine steel pen. My friend is somewhat of an agitator. The anonymous sender said, "Some day they will come and take your head. When that happens I will take 100 heads.

-pause to look it up - This was written in 2009:

"Sir,

I have read you on the internet and believe in what your doing. One day the ATF will come to count coup on you & take your head. I promise to take One hundred heads for yours.

Cheyenne 0317/8541"

There is a small, delicate ink drawing on the bottom of the sheet, showing what appears to be a coup stick crossed with a tomahawk and over-arched with what I'd guess are eagle feathers. The numbers 0317/8541, for the uninitiated, are the current and former MOS numbers for a Marine Scout/Sniper.

One hundred heads. I sat in the car, reading and rereading this piece of paper, touched by its simple sincerity. I have no doubt the man means what he says. I also have no doubt that a Marine scout/sniper has the skills to take a hundred heads if, God forbid, this should come to guns.

I shared this with a friend yesterday, and he had only this comment: "A hundred heads properly targeted could finish this thing." Indeed.

On the assumption that Cheyenne is reading this, I would like to tell him this:

I do not ask you to take those hundred heads, sir, but I appreciate the commitment to our common cause that such a promise implies. I do not know what the future may bring, but if it should be grim I merely ask that you get the right hundred heads.

In liberty, and with gratitude,

Mike Vanderboegh
III "

The progressive establishment in both parties thinks they can continue to destroy our country indefinitely. They are wrong. The billionaires in our country have "hidey holes" lined up where they will go and their families are already outside our country. The biggest single group of rural property buyers are middle class people who want to hunker down and ride out the storm.

Back up at the top of this thread, the "Adversarial Blogger" wrote:
"The stupidity of this is beyond articulation. Not only is there zero chance that an armed group of citizens could even conceive of winning any type of actual firefight with the federal government, but these morons are doing so much damage to the cause of limiting federal power it's ridiculous."

The Soviet Union tried to conquer tiny Finland. They were driven out of Finland by the riflemen in the forest. The Russians had lots of tanks, but the tanks needed fuel and the tank crews had to eat. Soon there were not enough Russians to drive their tanks back to Russia.

Once again, the "establishment" and the progressive Adversarial Blogger have no idea what is coming.

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