Is that college education worth it?

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Toolsmith
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No, AC. He nailed himself.

No, AC. He nailed himself. Institutions of learning should not be "echo chambers". If they are, they are not institutions of learning. He also has no idea what irony is...

Bruce Libby
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Along with the debate on

Along with the debate on getting one there is things left out that can make it
more beneficial that need to talked about.
Make sure your child or other individual has a clear picture of what they want do.
Make sure they are ready for college not only academically but socially/maturity wise.
Research where they want to go and what school is about. None of that is hidden if looked for.

Yes , there is indoctrination , a lot of it can be countered with preparation from the start.

Matt
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Webster speaking

Webster speaking authoritatively about the value of a college education is like Mike G explaining how to carry on a conversation with and then satisfy a woman.

Bruce Libby
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LIsten Smegma II I await your

LIsten Smegma II I await your contribution.
Of course I was speaking about steps to take before choosing college .
I didn't say anything about value in that post.

Jasper
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Go easy on Brucie, Matt. It

Go easy on Brucie, Matt. It appears he has finally caught on about how to use grammar/spell check. His punctuation still needs work, though.

Toolsmith
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Still think a college

Still think a college education is worth it? They're trying to fix that now... by ruining it completely.

https://patriotpost.us/articles/54471-when-activism-replaces-education-t...

pmconusa
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Like most questions these

Like most questions these days there is no single answer. For this one it is yes and no. Yes, because it gets you into the queue for jobs outside the sector reserved for blue collar type jobs which are the purview of those with a high school diploma or less. It does not guarantee you a job, or even a job in the area in which you may have specialized. If your education was in the liberal arts, you must stand in line with thousands of others who do not speak the language of the professions and people getting these jobs must also compete with those who college major was in the direction of the professions but cannot find work because there are more applicants than jobs to be filled.
My own experience is the classic case of the above. I had a Bachelor of Science Degree with majors in both Mathematics and Physics. My only job offer came from a firm called Allis Chalmers. It no longer exists. What they were looking for was a person they could train to fill the managerial ranks, willing to work long hours and disciplined to accept them. They already had all the engineering talent they needed and were unwilling to promote their shop labor because they would have to pay them more than the best ones were already making. I consider myself fortunate in this regard because the early 1950s was not the best in the job market. My point being, my education in the sciences provided an edge but was far from useful because I have never had occasion to utilize my advanced mathematics or physics. In addition, I didn’t take the job deeply in debt.
The professions jealously guard their monopolies by making entry difficult if not impossible through unnecessary educational requirements, and licensing that keeps most of would be adherents discouraged and therefore they can maintain their monopolies. There are sufficient of these adherents to replace those who retire so as to maintain the monopolies. In some cases, they have been able to avoid taking on replacements altogether.
A classic case of the former is the teachers in the Brunswick Education Department. They are unionized are more in number than necessary and because they have a government mandated monopoly they have successfully negotiated a continuous round of salary increases every year since I have been keeping records and most likely have since inception of the union. They have now reached a point where when a teacher retires and they may at age 62, they are hired back avoiding the need to hire any new ones. The reason for this is the union treasury that pays the union leaders extracts a percentage of the salary of each teacher in order to fill the union coffers. If they hire a new teacher making $33,000 per year and retire one making nearly $70,000 per year I will leave it to you to work out the math. As salary increases are based on seniority not on performance or teaching specialty this practice increases the union take every year.
Private industry has operated in the same fashion except the protection once afforded the manufacturing sector of our economy no longer enjoys the government protection it once had with tariffs. It not only affected those at the blue collar level, but the managerial personnel who supported them. Those jobs are gone forever and very few new ones are being created. The nasty statistics cannot be denied. Demographically there are more people reaching the age where they can work than those at the other end of the spectrum who are reaching retirement age, whether they held a job or not. The addition of over a million or more immigrants and probably at least as many more illegal ones add to the consumer side of the ledger. Without the growing expenditure on welfare many of these would join the ever growing number of homeless that are beginning to clog our cities where they can beg for private charity.
We have come a long way from the time when a son was happy and could assume the job of his father and a daughter could fill the role of her mother as the bearer and caretaker of her children. This is the nuclear family. There now only three ways to survive, you can work for it, steal what you need from others or have the government steal it on your behalf from those who work. If you steal, the government will insure you are housed, clothed and fed better than if you don’t steal and depend on charity.
I will repeat what my detractors don’t want you to know and that is we are very close to the time when we will consume all the fuel of life provided by our agriculture. It is already occurring in various parts of the world and is leading to mass migrations and civil wars, occurring more frequently than ever simply because government controls the distribution of nature’s wealth and determines who gets how much of what. For the United States, you can actually calculate when this will occur and it is within the lifetime of your grandchildren.

Gerald Weinand
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There is no reason why an

There is no reason why an individual can't learn a trade and receive a college education. I know a great building contractor who majored in theatre at Orono and a car mechanic who has a degree from MIT in nuclear something.

What many young people forget is that later in life they may aspire to serve on various municipal boards or even run for town council. Being exposed to higher education never hurt anyone.

Except for anonymous homophobes like Islander apparently.

Bruce Libby
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GW are you crapping on his

GW are you crapping on his education?

Jasper
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I think he's crapping on

I think he's crapping on Islander himself. You people can't seem to tell the difference between your idea being crapped on and you being crapped on. It's not so much that your philosophies are so bad, it's just that you yourselves are such loathsome individuals. An attack on Tom C, for example, is just that. He seems to think that an attack on him is an attack on Christianity and conservatives. Not so, it's completely personal. Most Christians and many conservatives are decent people, but the majority AMGers don't fall into that category.

Bruce Libby
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Good morning Smegma !

Good morning Smegma !
Always nice to hear from you .
Your correct, it is personal ,but even the loathsome can tell the difference between a piece of shit and Smegma.
Answer ,there is none.

Toolsmith
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An education focused only on

An education focused only on activism and PC gibberish isn't useful at all.

At least an older degree in an engineering discipline exposed one to general engineering principles, allowing one to understand engineered systems better. A older degree in theatre perhaps provides a fallback?

In the past few years I have encountered Degree Holders who cannot perform even basic tasks associated with their discipline. What good is that degree?

pmconusa
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If there are equally

If there are equally qualified or even unequally qualified persons applying for an entry level position that requires no previous experience and one is an African American, one a white, one an Hispanic and another an Asian and the firm is predominantly white, who do you think is going to be hired? In my opinion it will be the African American. The reason is that they are the most likely to sue the prospective employer for discrimination and nothing would be said by the other rejected candidates. How quickly we forget that not long ago whites applying to spaces in certain academic disciplines were suing the universities because of their diversity policies that were based solely on race and not on academic records.

Have you noticed recently the sudden increase in African Americans in advertisements? Also the number of multiracial couples being portrayed. We all have our biases, often for the wrong reasons, but your government now decides on which biases you can exercise, good or bad. The African American leadership believes preference is due them because their forefathers were brought to this country as slaves. They ignore the fact that throughout history there have been far more white, brown and yellow slaves. Besides, people without a craft of a profession and must sell their time for wages or salaries are nothing more than slaves, but better paid.

Economike
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There is no reason why.......

There is no reason why.........

Gerald -

I can think of one reason that, for many, would be compelling. A college education is an exceedingly expensive way to find fulfillment and life skills.

johnw
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Wiowser a personal attack on

Wiowser a personal attack on Islander.......jasper ,matt and boring as dog shit Gerald .... could anything speak louder to the inanity of a college education than those three...?

Bruce Libby
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johnw

johnw
You weren't surprised were you
The only difference between the three of them is Smegma (Jasper) has admitted that is what it is all about,repeatetdly !!

anonymous_coward
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@Economike: I can think of

@Economike: I can think of one reason that, for many, would be compelling. A college education is an exceedingly expensive way to find fulfillment and life skills.

One thing that isn't mentioned in the research (or perhaps I missed it) is the difference between not having an undergrad degree and having one, compared to the difference between having an undergrad degree from a state school and having one from an expensive private school (Bowdoin or Colby for a local example).

From a purely financial standpoint, it stands to reason that it would be worth getting the cheapest undergrad degree possible (probably community college + 2 years at UMaine) and then getting your trade skills - if only to hedge against the potential for an injury which forces you out of your trade, or a mid-career change of heart.

It would be significantly easier to transition careers with any kind of degree rather than none.

Edit: grammar failure

pmconusa
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Jobs in the monopoly sector

Jobs in the monopoly sector are incestuous. If you child doesn't care to follow in your footsteps the choice is to employ those from the college you graduated from. It is why Harvard and other Ivy League colleges have a foot up in the job market in the legal and medical professions. Your government is equally incestuous. Just try and get a government job if you have to compete with a veteran or other former government employee.

Economike
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There seems to be some

There seems to be some misunderstanding of Caplan's thesis.

He's not saying that the acquisition of knowledge and skill is useless, as though one might as well be locked in a closet as attend college. His point is that the diploma - not the learning - is redundant.

Toolsmith
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Elimination of Higher

Elimination of Higher Education?

https://patriotpost.us/articles/54646-the-elimination-of-higher-education

It appears there may be quite a few people asking themselves if college is worth the money.

Melvin Udall
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pm: "Jobs in the monopoly

pm: "Jobs in the monopoly sector are incestuous. If you child doesn't care to follow in your footsteps the choice is to employ those from the college you graduated from."

Having children is hereditary. If your parents didn't have any, chances are you won't either.

pmconusa
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Talk about blather. The pot

Talk about blather. The pot calling the kettle black. My parents sired two offspring. My brother had two children, I have none. Heredity has nothing to do with it. That statement, like most of those coming from the Progressives, is false.

Mainelion
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Please go back and read what

Please go back and read what Mel wrote. Carefully this time.

Toolsmith
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That's an old joke... good

That's an old joke... good one too... that he did not get.

Bruce Libby
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Of course it is extremely

Of course it is extremely worthy of a
Drum Roll and Rimshot !!

Jasper
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Yes, it is worthy, but your

Yes, it is worthy, but your superfluous use of it has rendered it essentially meaningless. Brucie, if anyone is responsible for the degradation of this forum, it's you. Thanks for the support!

pmconusa
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Ignorance is a lack of

Ignorance is a lack of knowledge and we all possess it to some degree or other. No one can know everything. Stupidity on the other hand is an acquired trait and it derives from knowledge and then ignoring it. There is a remedy for ignorance and that is to continue to gain knowledge. Stupidity has no remedy except for silence.

Melvin Udall
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See? pmcon falls prostrate

See? pmcon falls prostrate in abject humility for his lack of reading comprehension.

If he couldn't fathom that simple spin for the sake of humor, at least to some, what's the chance he can accurately read and interpret the learned materials from which he draws his supernatural wisdom and inspirations for his pontifications?

Furthermore, is there any doubt that he is incapable of "conversing" in normal human social terms?

This may be one of the more glaring examples of the underlying difficulties he has in his offerings.

He is utterly incapable of picking up on various cues, no matter what form they take. And because he can't, he goes into pretzel mode to reassert his superiority in his own mind.

Bruce Libby
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Thank you Smegma.

Thank you Smegma.
But no, the person responsible is he who allowed you back on after someone had kicked your sorry filthy mouth off years ago.

Toolsmith
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Even the University leaders

Even the University leaders know things aren't good...

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/mar/14/86-of-university-presid...

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